Halo 2 coming to PC --- Windows Vista only

[Air Raid]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6143976.html

Halo 2 headed to PC

Master Chief and fellow Space Marines say, "Hasta la Vista"; Microsoft
Game Studios to develop Halo 2 for PC and its next-gen operating
system.

If PC users are having trouble deciding whether to move over to Windows
Vista, Microsoft's next-generation operating system, when it is
released later this year, the fact that the fate of the Earth depends
on it may tip the scales. Microsoft Game Studios today announced that
it is developing Halo 2 for the PC.

The game will be only for Vista, and is being developed in partnership
with the franchise's original developer, Bungie Studios. The PC version
will include Halo 2, the bonus maps that came in the Multiplayer Map
Pack, and the ability to "build, create, and customize their own
multiplayer levels." No release date or other details have been
announced.

Last week, questions arose when Bungie revealed it was hiring PC
programmers to help "work on the biggest franchises for Microsoft Game
Studios." Many presumed that Bungie would be porting Halo 2 to the PC
in house, unlike the PC version of Halo, which was developed by
Brothers in Arms creator Gearbox Studios.

Halo 2, now over a year old, is the best-selling Xbox game of all time.
Bungie has not yet announced its next project. For more information on
Halo 2, read GameSpot's full review of the Xbox version.
By Tim Surette -- GameSpot
Posted Feb 9, 2006 10:08 am PT
____________________________________________

more here
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=Halo+2+PC&btnG=Search+News

[Jonah Falcon]

So?

Links 386 forced people to upgrade to 386 processors. Myst was the main
reason a lot of people bought CD-ROMs.

You're going to whine that Microsoft will force you to upgrade your OS to a
better, newer one?

I don't care.

Post by Air Raid
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6143976.html
Halo 2 headed to PC
Master Chief and fellow Space Marines say, "Hasta la Vista"; Microsoft
Game Studios to develop Halo 2 for PC and its next-gen operating
system.
If PC users are having trouble deciding whether to move over to Windows
Vista, Microsoft's next-generation operating system, when it is
released later this year, the fact that the fate of the Earth depends
on it may tip the scales. Microsoft Game Studios today announced that
it is developing Halo 2 for the PC.
The game will be only for Vista, and is being developed in partnership
with the franchise's original developer, Bungie Studios. The PC version
will include Halo 2, the bonus maps that came in the Multiplayer Map
Pack, and the ability to "build, create, and customize their own
multiplayer levels." No release date or other details have been
announced.
Last week, questions arose when Bungie revealed it was hiring PC
programmers to help "work on the biggest franchises for Microsoft Game
Studios." Many presumed that Bungie would be porting Halo 2 to the PC
in house, unlike the PC version of Halo, which was developed by
Brothers in Arms creator Gearbox Studios.
Halo 2, now over a year old, is the best-selling Xbox game of all time.
Bungie has not yet announced its next project. For more information on
Halo 2, read GameSpot's full review of the Xbox version.
By Tim Surette -- GameSpot
Posted Feb 9, 2006 10:08 am PT
____________________________________________
more here
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=Halo+2+PC&btnG=Search+News

[Jordan]

Post by Jonah Falcon
You're going to whine that Microsoft will force you to upgrade your OS to a
better, newer one?

Exactly. The rumor I've been hearing is that Vista will include Media
Center compatability so it's only natural to upgrade (at least if I
want full media streaming capabilities to the 360.)

Of course if that doesn't pan out then I can wait and see what
happens...

- Jordan

[Rob]

Post by Jordan

Post by Jonah Falcon
You're going to whine that Microsoft will force you to upgrade your OS to a
better, newer one?

Exactly. The rumor I've been hearing is that Vista will include Media
Center compatability so it's only natural to upgrade (at least if I
want full media streaming capabilities to the 360.)
Of course if that doesn't pan out then I can wait and see what
happens...
- Jordan

I'm sure someone will come up with a patch/hack anyway.

[riku]

Post by Jordan
Exactly. The rumor I've been hearing is that Vista will include Media
Center compatability so it's only natural to upgrade (at least if I
want full media streaming capabilities to the 360.)

And Halo 2 needs that for... what? It is a freaking FPS game for a
stupid console. We will see (and have already seen) much more advanced
FPS games for Windows XP (heck, probably even Win98!) than Halo 2.

[Wurm]

Post by riku

Post by Jordan
Exactly. The rumor I've been hearing is that Vista will include Media
Center compatability so it's only natural to upgrade (at least if I
want full media streaming capabilities to the 360.)

And Halo 2 needs that for... what? It is a freaking FPS game for a
stupid console. We will see (and have already seen) much more advanced
FPS games for Windows XP (heck, probably even Win98!) than Halo 2.

hell, Thief 1, System Shock 2, Deux Ex all ran on Win98 and Halo2 doesn't
come close to any of those

Wurm

[Doug Jacobs]

Post by riku
And Halo 2 needs that for... what? It is a freaking FPS game for a
stupid console. We will see (and have already seen) much more advanced
FPS games for Windows XP (heck, probably even Win98!) than Halo 2.

It's not what Halo2 needs. It's what Microsoft wants - and what Microsoft
wants is lots of sales of Vista.

After all, if you're already running a top-notch PC with XP-Pro, what
exactly does Vista hold for you, other than a slightly different GUI?

[One Punch Mickey]

After all, if you're already running a top-notch PC with >XP-Pro, what
exactly does Vista hold for you, other than a slightly >different GUI?

As a Joe Soap user playing the odd game here and there? Maybe not a whole
lot, most of those people would happily remain on Windows 98

Personally, I'd like the new development stuff, increased security and so on
and yeah, the Aero eye candy. Also the new command line interface.

What a lot of people don't know or forget about the Vista GUI is that you
can easily turn it all off and make it look like XP. This thing has to run
on servers don't forget, and you don't want all those bells and whistles
hoovering up CPU cycles on a server.

As for Halo ans why it's Vista-only, the issue also concerns Direct3D
support - Vista uses a new graphics API called WGF. The primary interface is
DirectX 9.0c, but it also has some next-gen support. If Halo is written
using that, and Microsoft don't backport that into a DirectX 10 that will
run on XP, then that's a reason why it will be a Vista-only title.

http://spaces.msn.com/shevaspace/Blog/cns!1pHJ0V2VASg_CdcC34Org_SA!377.entry

See that link for more advantages over XP.

[Alfie [UK]]

Post by One Punch Mickey
As for Halo ans why it's Vista-only, the issue also concerns Direct3D
support - Vista uses a new graphics API called WGF. The primary interface is
DirectX 9.0c, but it also has some next-gen support. If Halo is written
using that, and Microsoft don't backport that into a DirectX 10 that will
run on XP, then that's a reason why it will be a Vista-only title.

WGF has been dropped (at the marketing level), it's all DX10 now.

As I posted previously DX10 will only support DX9 and below via software
mode (i.e. slower) although there will apparently be a DX9 upgrade
called DX9Ex which may be a step-up to allow XP/DX9 to utilise the
enhanced shader levels that will be available in DX10.

Because the features of DX10 seem to be integral to Vista it is likely
DX10 will not be available for XP machines, hence MS wanting to get
developers writing for Vista/DX10 and forcing people to upgrade to play
new games.

[Bill Smiff]

Thank you, I was getting sick of everyone bashing Vista without even knowing
what they were talking about. I'm not a heavy microsoft backer or anything,
I just have heard some real good things about Vista and how they developed
parts of it to help out gamers and make gaming easier and better, and
basically looking forward to seeing what it could do.

Post by One Punch Mickey

After all, if you're already running a top-notch PC with >XP-Pro, what
exactly does Vista hold for you, other than a slightly >different GUI?

As a Joe Soap user playing the odd game here and there? Maybe not a whole
lot, most of those people would happily remain on Windows 98
Personally, I'd like the new development stuff, increased security and so on
and yeah, the Aero eye candy. Also the new command line interface.
What a lot of people don't know or forget about the Vista GUI is that you
can easily turn it all off and make it look like XP. This thing has to run
on servers don't forget, and you don't want all those bells and whistles
hoovering up CPU cycles on a server.
As for Halo ans why it's Vista-only, the issue also concerns Direct3D
support - Vista uses a new graphics API called WGF. The primary interface is
DirectX 9.0c, but it also has some next-gen support. If Halo is written
using that, and Microsoft don't backport that into a DirectX 10 that will
run on XP, then that's a reason why it will be a Vista-only title.
http://spaces.msn.com/shevaspace/Blog/cns!1pHJ0V2VASg_CdcC34Org_SA!377.entry
See that link for more advantages over XP.

[Mike Young]

Post by One Punch Mickey
As for Halo ans why it's Vista-only, the issue also concerns Direct3D
support - Vista uses a new graphics API called WGF. The primary interface is

I think all of that is just superficial. The real reason is DRM, a "hack for
that" will not be coming shortly.

[Andrew]

Post by One Punch Mickey
http://spaces.msn.com/shevaspace/Blog/cns!1pHJ0V2VASg_CdcC34Org_SA!377.entry
See that link for more advantages over XP.

I can't see a single one on that page. It is just a contrived money
spinning solution looking for an imaginary problem.

[Walter Mitty]

"Andrew" risked the wrath of Usenet weenies mastering
mommies computer when he ventured forth on 2006-02-11, commmitted

Post by Andrew

Post by One Punch Mickey
http://spaces.msn.com/shevaspace/Blog/cns!1pHJ0V2VASg_CdcC34Org_SA!377.entry
See that link for more advantages over XP.

I can't see a single one on that page. It is just a contrived money
spinning solution looking for an imaginary problem.

"One of the important features of WGF is the Longhorn Display Driver
Model (LDDM). It is possible with LDDM to install a new graphics
driver without even rebooting your system"

So what? How often will that be a benefit?

"Because of the competitive way of graphics hardware development,
we'll probably see advanced LDDM capable hardware before Vista is
released. The current Windows XP driver model is still supported, but
will be frozen going forward."

Oh great. They are freezing out existing HW & SW.

"Advantages of Vista above XP:
- run more than 15 graphical applications at the same time instead of
2"

eh? You what?

"- you are able to rotate your windows in a 3D way, so you can push it
to the background, put it upside down or squeeze it in a corner. This
way you'll be able to have more windows on your screen at the same
time"

I like to minimise them ... or use a multidesktop.

" some of the BIOS settings can be changed within Windows and you
won't even have to reboot to apply the new settings"

Again, so what?

"with XP, users got a lot of freedom to configure and tweak their
system but Microsoft says that with Vista the 'more advanced' users
will get the freedom to customize and tweak even more features of
Windows that weren't possible in XP"

Fanboyism is getting out of bounds here.

" there will be NO graphical difference between an ATI or nVidia card
anymore, the only difference will be overall performance"

Hey, mean Chlorine, are you looking at this? No more "better" colours
:) I wonde3r how they will do that?

"If you want to play a game, Vista will disable every component of
your computer that isn't needed by the graphical interface and unloads
the Windows Desktop (it's like running a game in MSDOS)."

So much for that "split window into 4" bullshit.

"While it's true that the graphics technology for Vista is very
advanced, it's also true that Microsoft is trying to have a wide array
of hardware specifications. By the time Vista actually ships, almost
every new PC should be able to support the user interface and Windows
Graphics Foundation."

Sounds like fud to me.

"That doesn't mean users will need GeForce 6800 Ultras or comparable
cards. As we've seen, the user interface will support four different
qualities, the most basic should even run on most of today's
hardware. If you want the full Vista experience, you'll want a heavy
system and graphics hardware, and lots of memory."

All fur coat and no knickers. As expected.

Also, in fairness to Vista, it doesnt sound like this guy knew what he
was talking about. Sounded like a lot of fanboy soundbites to me.

[Alfie [UK]]

On 11 Feb 2006 17:16:54 GMT, Walter Mitty <***@gmail.com> wrote:

MS ditched WGF as the marketing name not long after the July
announcement that people have referred to...along with backwards
compatibility around September last year.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/DirectX-10-and-so-it-ends-7762.shtml

Sometime in November they made some mention of the fact that Vista/DX
will specify the hardware requirement of stuff such as the GPU rather
than the GPU exposing it's capabilities but I'm having trouble finding a
link to the article I saw on an MS expo. In essence no more feature race
between ATI/nVidia as DX will decide what features should be available,
not sure how the GPU guys feel about that :)

[Robin]

Post by Jonah Falcon
So?
Links 386 forced people to upgrade to 386 processors. Myst was the main
reason a lot of people bought CD-ROMs.
You're going to whine that Microsoft will force you to upgrade your OS to
a better, newer one?
I don't care.

I didn't actually see any whining................

Post by Jonah Falcon

Post by Air Raid
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6143976.html
Halo 2 headed to PC
Master Chief and fellow Space Marines say, "Hasta la Vista"; Microsoft
Game Studios to develop Halo 2 for PC and its next-gen operating
system.
If PC users are having trouble deciding whether to move over to Windows
Vista, Microsoft's next-generation operating system, when it is
released later this year, the fact that the fate of the Earth depends
on it may tip the scales. Microsoft Game Studios today announced that
it is developing Halo 2 for the PC.
The game will be only for Vista, and is being developed in partnership
with the franchise's original developer, Bungie Studios. The PC version
will include Halo 2, the bonus maps that came in the Multiplayer Map
Pack, and the ability to "build, create, and customize their own
multiplayer levels." No release date or other details have been
announced.
Last week, questions arose when Bungie revealed it was hiring PC
programmers to help "work on the biggest franchises for Microsoft Game
Studios." Many presumed that Bungie would be porting Halo 2 to the PC
in house, unlike the PC version of Halo, which was developed by
Brothers in Arms creator Gearbox Studios.
Halo 2, now over a year old, is the best-selling Xbox game of all time.
Bungie has not yet announced its next project. For more information on
Halo 2, read GameSpot's full review of the Xbox version.
By Tim Surette -- GameSpot
Posted Feb 9, 2006 10:08 am PT
____________________________________________
more here
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=Halo+2+PC&btnG=Search+News

[Jonah Falcon]

Post by Robin

Post by Jonah Falcon
So?
Links 386 forced people to upgrade to 386 processors. Myst was the main
reason a lot of people bought CD-ROMs.
You're going to whine that Microsoft will force you to upgrade your OS to
a better, newer one?
I don't care.

I didn't actually see any whining................

Have you seen the Action NG? lol

[riku]

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 22:34:33 GMT, "Jonah Falcon"

Post by Jonah Falcon
So?
Links 386 forced people to upgrade to 386 processors. Myst was the main
reason a lot of people bought CD-ROMs.

That's because Links 386 wouldn't have been possible to develop on a
286 processor, or Myst wouldn't have really worked well from floppy
disks.

What is it in Vista that Halo 2, a freaking XBox game, would require?
Nothing. This time, it is nothing more but a (Vista) marketing move,
unlike with the two other examples.

Post by Jonah Falcon
You're going to whine that Microsoft will force you to upgrade your OS to a
better, newer one?

It takes more than just Halo 2 to do that. But yes, it would be a good
idea to complain about Microsoft using its monopoly leverage on
desktop operating systems to force people to upgrade to new overpriced
versions of Windows.

[Robin]

Post by riku
On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 22:34:33 GMT, "Jonah Falcon"

Post by Jonah Falcon
So?
Links 386 forced people to upgrade to 386 processors. Myst was the main
reason a lot of people bought CD-ROMs.

That's because Links 386 wouldn't have been possible to develop on a
286 processor, or Myst wouldn't have really worked well from floppy
disks.
What is it in Vista that Halo 2, a freaking XBox game, would require?
Nothing. This time, it is nothing more but a (Vista) marketing move,
unlike with the two other examples.

Post by Jonah Falcon
You're going to whine that Microsoft will force you to upgrade your OS to a
better, newer one?

It takes more than just Halo 2 to do that. But yes, it would be a good
idea to complain about Microsoft using its monopoly leverage on
desktop operating systems to force people to upgrade to new overpriced
versions of Windows.

You're right of course. It's just another MS ploy to get people to buy
ANOTHER OS. Just like making you have MCE 2005 to be able to stream video
to your XBox 360. THere is no technical reason one would have to have MCE
2005 to stream video, they just want you to spend the extra money to get
that functionality. From what I understand the PS3 will be able to stream
video, and golly gee, you won't even have to get a whole new OS to do it.

[Walter Mitty]

"Robin" risked the wrath of Usenet weenies mastering
mommies computer when he ventured forth on 2006-02-10, commmitted

Post by Robin

Post by riku
On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 22:34:33 GMT, "Jonah Falcon"

Post by Jonah Falcon
So?
Links 386 forced people to upgrade to 386 processors. Myst was the main
reason a lot of people bought CD-ROMs.

That's because Links 386 wouldn't have been possible to develop on a
286 processor, or Myst wouldn't have really worked well from floppy
disks.
What is it in Vista that Halo 2, a freaking XBox game, would require?
Nothing. This time, it is nothing more but a (Vista) marketing move,
unlike with the two other examples.

Post by Jonah Falcon
You're going to whine that Microsoft will force you to upgrade your OS to a
better, newer one?

It takes more than just Halo 2 to do that. But yes, it would be a good
idea to complain about Microsoft using its monopoly leverage on
desktop operating systems to force people to upgrade to new overpriced
versions of Windows.

You're right of course. It's just another MS ploy to get people to buy
ANOTHER OS. Just like making you have MCE 2005 to be able to stream video
to your XBox 360. THere is no technical reason one would have to have MCE
2005 to stream video, they just want you to spend the extra money to get
that functionality. From what I understand the PS3 will be able to stream
video, and golly gee, you won't even have to get a whole new OS to do it.

MS is a business : why should they give everything free? If you want
free stuff then move to Linux - just dont expect to be gamingly
challenged unless yet another openGL "pong" is enough to keep you
amused.

That aside, I tink it is a bit naff limiting Halo 2 to Vista.

[Doug Jacobs]

Post by Walter Mitty
MS is a business : why should they give everything free? If you want
free stuff then move to Linux - just dont expect to be gamingly
challenged unless yet another openGL "pong" is enough to keep you
amused.

How is this giving something away for free? You'll still have to buy
Halo2 regardless of what the OS requirements end up being...

The last time a game *required* an upgraded OS was when going from DOS to
Win95 - and that was easily justified.

But forcing people to upgrade from XP-Pro to Vista? Show me what Vista
does that XP-Pro *can't*. Reading Microsoft's press release, it really
sounds like the only reason you have to upgrade is that Microsoft is
forcing Halo2 to only use a version DirectX that says "OS=vista" in it.
If that really is the only reason, you can bet people will quickly
discover how to "fix" this bug of Microsoft's.

[Walter Mitty]

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action.]
"Doug" risked the wrath of Usenet weenies mastering
mommies computer when he ventured forth on 2006-02-11, commmitted

Post by Doug Jacobs

Post by Walter Mitty
MS is a business : why should they give everything free? If you want
free stuff then move to Linux - just dont expect to be gamingly
challenged unless yet another openGL "pong" is enough to keep you
amused.

How is this giving something away for free? You'll still have to buy
Halo2 regardless of what the OS requirements end up being...

I have no idea what you are talking about. I never said they are
giving anything away for free. What I said was that MS are entitled to
move people to purchase paths in order to make money.

I dont agree with it in this case. There is no technical reason why
Halo 2 shouldnt work on XP.

Post by Doug Jacobs
The last time a game *required* an upgraded OS was when going from DOS to
Win95 - and that was easily justified.

I agree.

Post by Doug Jacobs
But forcing people to upgrade from XP-Pro to Vista? Show me what Vista
does that XP-Pro *can't*. Reading Microsoft's press release, it really

Its pretty much what I said. Are we arguiing?

Post by Doug Jacobs
sounds like the only reason you have to upgrade is that Microsoft is
forcing Halo2 to only use a version DirectX that says "OS=vista" in it.
If that really is the only reason, you can bet people will quickly
discover how to "fix" this bug of Microsoft's.

Hmm, can I smell "class action suite" on its way :) ...

[Robin]

Post by Walter Mitty
"Robin" risked the wrath of Usenet weenies mastering
mommies computer when he ventured forth on 2006-02-10, commmitted

Post by Robin

Post by riku
On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 22:34:33 GMT, "Jonah Falcon"

Post by Jonah Falcon
So?
Links 386 forced people to upgrade to 386 processors. Myst was the main
reason a lot of people bought CD-ROMs.

That's because Links 386 wouldn't have been possible to develop on a
286 processor, or Myst wouldn't have really worked well from floppy
disks.
What is it in Vista that Halo 2, a freaking XBox game, would require?
Nothing. This time, it is nothing more but a (Vista) marketing move,
unlike with the two other examples.

Post by Jonah Falcon
You're going to whine that Microsoft will force you to upgrade your OS
to
a
better, newer one?

It takes more than just Halo 2 to do that. But yes, it would be a good
idea to complain about Microsoft using its monopoly leverage on
desktop operating systems to force people to upgrade to new overpriced
versions of Windows.

You're right of course. It's just another MS ploy to get people to buy
ANOTHER OS. Just like making you have MCE 2005 to be able to stream video
to your XBox 360. THere is no technical reason one would have to have MCE
2005 to stream video, they just want you to spend the extra money to get
that functionality. From what I understand the PS3 will be able to stream
video, and golly gee, you won't even have to get a whole new OS to do it.

MS is a business : why should they give everything free?

What are they giving away for free? Assuming you purchased an XBox 360, and
a PC with Windows and networking functions, you've already paid for the
capabilities that are already there. They've just chosen to block those
capabilities unless you get an upgraded OS.

Post by Walter Mitty
If you want
free stuff then move to Linux - just dont expect to be gamingly
challenged unless yet another openGL "pong" is enough to keep you
amused.
That aside, I tink it is a bit naff limiting Halo 2 to Vista.
--
To overcome evil with good is good, to resist evil by evil is evil.
-- Mohammed

[Walter Mitty]

"Robin" risked the wrath of Usenet weenies mastering
mommies computer when he ventured forth on 2006-02-11, commmitted

Post by Robin

Post by Walter Mitty
"Robin" risked the wrath of Usenet weenies mastering
mommies computer when he ventured forth on 2006-02-10, commmitted

Post by Robin

Post by riku
On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 22:34:33 GMT, "Jonah Falcon"

Post by Jonah Falcon
So?
Links 386 forced people to upgrade to 386 processors. Myst was the main
reason a lot of people bought CD-ROMs.

That's because Links 386 wouldn't have been possible to develop on a
286 processor, or Myst wouldn't have really worked well from floppy
disks.
What is it in Vista that Halo 2, a freaking XBox game, would require?
Nothing. This time, it is nothing more but a (Vista) marketing move,
unlike with the two other examples.

Post by Jonah Falcon
You're going to whine that Microsoft will force you to upgrade your OS
to
a
better, newer one?

It takes more than just Halo 2 to do that. But yes, it would be a good
idea to complain about Microsoft using its monopoly leverage on
desktop operating systems to force people to upgrade to new overpriced
versions of Windows.

You're right of course. It's just another MS ploy to get people to buy
ANOTHER OS. Just like making you have MCE 2005 to be able to stream video
to your XBox 360. THere is no technical reason one would have to have MCE
2005 to stream video, they just want you to spend the extra money to get
that functionality. From what I understand the PS3 will be able to stream
video, and golly gee, you won't even have to get a whole new OS to do it.

MS is a business : why should they give everything free?

What are they giving away for free? Assuming you purchased an XBox 360, and
a PC with Windows and networking functions, you've already paid for the
capabilities that are already there. They've just chosen to block those
capabilities unless you get an upgraded OS.

They are not givng anything for free. Hence my question.

Post by Robin

Post by Walter Mitty
If you want
free stuff then move to Linux - just dont expect to be gamingly
challenged unless yet another openGL "pong" is enough to keep you
amused.
That aside, I tink it is a bit naff limiting Halo 2 to Vista.
--
To overcome evil with good is good, to resist evil by evil is evil.
-- Mohammed

[Devala Rees]

Post by Robin

Post by riku
On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 22:34:33 GMT, "Jonah Falcon"

Post by Jonah Falcon
So?
Links 386 forced people to upgrade to 386 processors. Myst was the main
reason a lot of people bought CD-ROMs.

That's because Links 386 wouldn't have been possible to develop on a
286 processor, or Myst wouldn't have really worked well from floppy
disks.
What is it in Vista that Halo 2, a freaking XBox game, would require?
Nothing. This time, it is nothing more but a (Vista) marketing move,
unlike with the two other examples.

Post by Jonah Falcon
You're going to whine that Microsoft will force you to upgrade your OS to a
better, newer one?

It takes more than just Halo 2 to do that. But yes, it would be a good
idea to complain about Microsoft using its monopoly leverage on
desktop operating systems to force people to upgrade to new overpriced
versions of Windows.

You're right of course. It's just another MS ploy to get people to buy
ANOTHER OS. Just like making you have MCE 2005 to be able to stream video
to your XBox 360. THere is no technical reason one would have to have MCE
2005 to stream video, they just want you to spend the extra money to get
that functionality. From what I understand the PS3 will be able to stream
video, and golly gee, you won't even have to get a whole new OS to do it.

No, but you'll have to get a whole new PS3 :)

[Robin]

Post by Devala Rees

Post by Robin

Post by riku
On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 22:34:33 GMT, "Jonah Falcon"

Post by Jonah Falcon
So?
Links 386 forced people to upgrade to 386 processors. Myst was the main
reason a lot of people bought CD-ROMs.

That's because Links 386 wouldn't have been possible to develop on a
286 processor, or Myst wouldn't have really worked well from floppy
disks.
What is it in Vista that Halo 2, a freaking XBox game, would require?
Nothing. This time, it is nothing more but a (Vista) marketing move,
unlike with the two other examples.

Post by Jonah Falcon
You're going to whine that Microsoft will force you to upgrade your OS
to
a
better, newer one?

It takes more than just Halo 2 to do that. But yes, it would be a good
idea to complain about Microsoft using its monopoly leverage on
desktop operating systems to force people to upgrade to new overpriced
versions of Windows.

You're right of course. It's just another MS ploy to get people to buy
ANOTHER OS. Just like making you have MCE 2005 to be able to stream video
to your XBox 360. THere is no technical reason one would have to have MCE
2005 to stream video, they just want you to spend the extra money to get
that functionality. From what I understand the PS3 will be able to stream
video, and golly gee, you won't even have to get a whole new OS to do it.

No, but you'll have to get a whole new PS3 :)

True, but I already got a whole new 360 that has networking capabilities,
and I have a few window's PC's with networking capabilities. But Sony is
not going to make me pay EXTRA to unlock the capabilities that are already
in the machine like MS does.

[Darryl L. Pierce]

Post by Jonah Falcon
You're going to whine that Microsoft will force you to upgrade your OS to
a better, newer one?

You're assuming that "newer" *means* "better", something not shown to be the
case.

[Highlandish]

Post by Air Raid
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6143976.html
Halo 2 headed to PC
Master Chief and fellow Space Marines say, "Hasta la Vista"; Microsoft
Game Studios to develop Halo 2 for PC and its next-gen operating
system.

actually it will be cracked in the night of release. from what I understand,
so many original features of vista were delayed that vista its self would be
no more than another service pack for XP pro, but released as a juiced up OS
in its own right.

[Chris H.]

And you would be incorrect. Unless you're involved in the testing, you have
no idea how advanced Vista will be.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Highlandish
actually it will be cracked in the night of release. from what I
understand, so many original features of vista were delayed that vista its
self would be no more than another service pack for XP pro, but released
as a juiced up OS in its own right.
--
Remove the _CURSEING to reply to me
'Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia' is the fear of long words.

[video-game dude]

or how bloated and fucked up Vista might be

[Jeremy Reaban]

Post by Chris H.
And you would be incorrect. Unless you're involved in the testing, you
have no idea how advanced Vista will be.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC

So sayeth a MS shill

But if Halo 2 can run on an Xbox, it's pretty silly that MS is implying that
you need something special in Vista to run it on a PC. If it were Halo 3,
then perhaps they could say it with a straight face. But clearly this is
nothing more than marketting.

[Chris H.]

I'm a gamer just like you are. Have you run Vista? Have you run using
glass/aero? Have you seen the features at all? If you haven't, then you
really don't know what you're talking about. 8-)
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Jeremy Reaban

Post by Chris H.
And you would be incorrect. Unless you're involved in the testing, you
have no idea how advanced Vista will be.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC

So sayeth a MS shill
But if Halo 2 can run on an Xbox, it's pretty silly that MS is implying
that you need something special in Vista to run it on a PC. If it were
Halo 3, then perhaps they could say it with a straight face. But clearly
this is nothing more than marketting.

[riku]

Post by Chris H.
I'm a gamer just like you are. Have you run Vista? Have you run using
glass/aero? Have you seen the features at all? If you haven't, then you
really don't know what you're talking about. 8-)

What does that have anything to do with a XBox-port FPS game running
on it? Are you really telling us those Vista features are needed to
run Halo 2 PC? What a stupid idea.

[Mike Young]

Post by riku

Post by Chris H.
I'm a gamer just like you are. Have you run Vista? Have you run using
glass/aero? Have you seen the features at all? If you haven't, then you
really don't know what you're talking about. 8-)

What does that have anything to do with a XBox-port FPS game running
on it? Are you really telling us those Vista features are needed to
run Halo 2 PC? What a stupid idea.

"Needed"? Probably not. How about as a platform for hack-proof DRM? I don't
think Vista is the final word on secure systems, but likely among the last
of the test platforms. Halo2 is the carrot to draw motivated hackers with
time (if little else) on their hands to give it one last, good thrashing.

[Doug Jacobs]

Post by Mike Young
"Needed"? Probably not. How about as a platform for hack-proof DRM? I don't
think Vista is the final word on secure systems, but likely among the last
of the test platforms. Halo2 is the carrot to draw motivated hackers with
time (if little else) on their hands to give it one last, good thrashing.

The only way to have a true unhackable system would be to release a
totally sealed box that was as indestructible as possible and contained both
the computer and the monitor. There would be no disk drives of any sort.
All of the OS and software would be stored in solid state ROM. Speakers,
keyboard, and touch-pad mouse would all be included in this sealed case.
There would be no input ports for external devices of any sort. This system
would not have any network access whatsoever. It would only have 1 user
account with no root or admin priveleges.

Essentially, it'd be like those little hand-held electronic games you see
in toystores.

Every DRM system has been cracked within days of its release - and
oftentimes days BEFORE the release.

[Richard]

Post by Chris H.
I'm a gamer just like you are. Have you run Vista? Have you run using
glass/aero? Have you seen the features at all? If you haven't, then you
really don't know what you're talking about. 8-)

A game is a game is a game. There are only so many "features" of an OS
that a game can use : device interfaces to video, sound & controllers.

Its a crock of shit designed by MS to encourage gamers to upgrade to
yet another bloated version of windows.

And, in addition, remember that Halo 2 "the game" is nothing new : its
being ported from XBox.

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Chris H.
I'm a gamer just like you are. Have you run Vista? Have you run using
glass/aero? Have you seen the features at all? If you haven't, then you
really don't know what you're talking about. 8-)
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/

Yes, yes, I know what will become of this reply, you'll probably just
say that I'm another angry Mac user, but I'm really not.

Have you compared the features of Vista to the latest Mac OS X release?
I wouldn't proclaim them as something that would make it very
innovative and new.

I, for one, am still neutral on this topic, of Halo 2 on computers.
It's really mainly a booster for sales, but who knows? Maybe most
gamers will already have this on their Xboxes, or probably even bought
an Xbox specifically for Halo 2 (like myself), and then got pretty mad
that Microsoft is releasing it on their computer...

[Chris H.]

I never said anything about Macs, however, since you mentioned it you might
like this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=659868888687687821&q=mac+games 8-)
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Chris H.
I'm a gamer just like you are. Have you run Vista? Have you run using
glass/aero? Have you seen the features at all? If you haven't, then you
really don't know what you're talking about. 8-)
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/

Yes, yes, I know what will become of this reply, you'll probably just
say that I'm another angry Mac user, but I'm really not.
Have you compared the features of Vista to the latest Mac OS X release?
I wouldn't proclaim them as something that would make it very
innovative and new.
I, for one, am still neutral on this topic, of Halo 2 on computers.
It's really mainly a booster for sales, but who knows? Maybe most
gamers will already have this on their Xboxes, or probably even bought
an Xbox specifically for Halo 2 (like myself), and then got pretty mad
that Microsoft is releasing it on their computer...

[Walter Mitty]

"Chris" risked the wrath of Usenet weenies mastering
mommies computer when he ventured forth on 2006-02-10, commmitted

Post by Chris H.
I never said anything about Macs, however, since you mentioned it you might
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=659868888687687821&q=mac+games 8-)

Has MS not provided something to stop outlook express top posting yet?
use your contacts Chris - or google up quotefix.

[Chris H.]

Post by Walter Mitty
"Chris" risked the wrath of Usenet weenies mastering
mommies computer when he ventured forth on 2006-02-10, commmitted

Post by Chris H.
I never said anything about Macs, however, since you mentioned it you might
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=659868888687687821&q=mac+games
8-)

Has MS not provided something to stop outlook express top posting yet?
use your contacts Chris - or google up quotefix.
--
To overcome evil with good is good, to resist evil by evil is evil.
Mohammed

I can bottom post, but choose not to do so. 8-)

[Clarke]

Post by Walter Mitty
"Chris" risked the wrath of Usenet weenies mastering
mommies computer when he ventured forth on 2006-02-10, commmitted

Post by Chris H.
I never said anything about Macs, however, since you mentioned it you might
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=659868888687687821&q=mac+games 8-)

Has MS not provided something to stop outlook express top posting yet?

A mouse.

It's up to the user to provide the brain to figure out how to click below the
existing text before starting to type.

[BNAZ]

Post by Chris H.
I'm a gamer just like you are. Have you run Vista? Have you run using
glass/aero? Have you seen the features at all? If you haven't, then you
really don't know what you're talking about. 8-)

Vista is shite IMHO, XP service pack is the correct description.

Glass/Aero are nothing new at all.

[Adam]

dude come on.... its nothing but a marketing ploy to sell vista,
FULLSTOP..... all I can say is good luck to em cause everyone has already
upgraded to XP and will have no need for Vista.
And for fruits sake, XP is not that god damn old, what the fruit could you
possible need from Vista that XP doesn't provide. I havn't even seen Vista
and don't plan on even installing it even if Santa gave it too me.....

Post by Chris H.
I'm a gamer just like you are. Have you run Vista? Have you run using
glass/aero? Have you seen the features at all? If you haven't, then you
really don't know what you're talking about. 8-)
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

Post by Jeremy Reaban

Post by Chris H.
And you would be incorrect. Unless you're involved in the testing, you
have no idea how advanced Vista will be.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC

So sayeth a MS shill
But if Halo 2 can run on an Xbox, it's pretty silly that MS is implying
that you need something special in Vista to run it on a PC. If it were
Halo 3, then perhaps they could say it with a straight face. But clearly
this is nothing more than marketting.

[Sean Cousins]

Post by Adam
dude come on.... its nothing but a marketing ploy to sell vista,
FULLSTOP..... all I can say is good luck to em cause everyone has already
upgraded to XP and will have no need for Vista.
And for fruits sake, XP is not that god damn old, what the fruit could you
possible need from Vista that XP doesn't provide. I havn't even seen Vista
and don't plan on even installing it even if Santa gave it too me.....

I bet you said the same not long before XP was released.

[Andrew]

Post by Sean Cousins
I bet you said the same not long before XP was released.

There were blatant problems with Win9x that 2000 and subsequently XP
have fixed. There isn't a compelling reason to go for XP from what I
have seen so far.

[Sean Cousins]

Post by Andrew
There were blatant problems with Win9x that 2000 and subsequently XP
have fixed. There isn't a compelling reason to go for XP from what I
have seen so far.

Tighter security? XP was released full of security holes.

[Walter Mitty]

"Sean" risked the wrath of Usenet weenies mastering
mommies computer when he ventured forth on 2006-02-12, commmitted

Post by Sean Cousins

Post by Andrew
There were blatant problems with Win9x that 2000 and subsequently XP
have fixed. There isn't a compelling reason to go for XP from what I
have seen so far.

Tighter security? XP was released full of security holes.

Cheaper & easier to stick a HW router in the way and disable
javascript:)

You can be sure that Vista will be like a sieve too : and if its not
there will be enough people trying to poke holes in it quick enough:)

Anyone know if its introduced a file based security level yet to
protect core systems from script attacks?

[Doug Jacobs]

Post by Walter Mitty
Anyone know if its introduced a file based security level yet to
protect core systems from script attacks?

What? That's crazy talk. That sort of technology would require some sort
of UNIX system to make it work. ;)

[Doug Jacobs]

Post by Andrew
There were blatant problems with Win9x that 2000 and subsequently XP
have fixed. There isn't a compelling reason to go for XP from what I
have seen so far.

Actually I prefer 2000 to XP. I have yet to crash 2000, whereas XP has
gone down because it decides it no longer likes itself and commits suicide.

The only reason XP seems to be getting better is because they stopped
developing for 2000 - just as they're planning to do for XP once Vista
comes out.

The only OS's I haven't had crash on me (while just doing normal
activities!) are Win2k, Linux 2.4, OS/2 and OS X (mainly because I've used
it so little.) In the other cases, I wasn't doing anything unusual and
oftentimes the OS crash was caused by a misbehaving user application -
which shouldn't happen. Seriously, I've crashed every version of DOS,
every version of Mac OS up to OS8, every version of Windows, a Linux 2.2
system(!) and even my university's mainframe.

Oh sure, I have applications crash or die on me all the time, but if the
OS is robust enough, it and the other applications will be unaffected by a
misbehaving app.

My dream OS would have the robustness of OS/2 the GUI of OSX and the
hardware and software support of Win2k. I loved OS/2. That was one
indestructible operating system. Some friends of mine were fiddling with
it, and said it was running too slowly. When I took a look, they'd
managed to fire off 6 separate instances of Wing Commander 2 - on a lowly
486dx-2 no less! The thing was slow, yet functional, and recovered after
I killed the extra instances off.

[Shinnokxz]

Post by Jeremy Reaban
But if Halo 2 can run on an Xbox, it's pretty silly that MS is implying that
you need something special in Vista to run it on a PC. If it were Halo 3,
then perhaps they could say it with a straight face. But clearly this is
nothing more than marketting.

Jeremy FTW

[r***@gmail.com]

I really don't see why MS would bother porting Halo 2 to PC...except
for one reason. XBOX Live.

They probably plan on further integration of XBOX Live with the PC
through the release of Vista.....to do so I suppose they think that
porting an ancient mediocre game to the PC (Remember to PC users the
Halo series is an average game at best) will get people to use their
Live service on PC? (Remember, I'm speculating).

This doesn't make any sense since all of the Halo 2 players will keep
on using their XBOX's.....and for them, IMO the PC would be inferior
for this task.

They'd be bother off using new properties to enhance their online
strategies for PC/XBOX.

Post by Shinnokxz

Post by Jeremy Reaban
But if Halo 2 can run on an Xbox, it's pretty silly that MS is implying that
you need something special in Vista to run it on a PC. If it were Halo 3,
then perhaps they could say it with a straight face. But clearly this is
nothing more than marketting.

Jeremy FTW
--
Shinnokxz - http://www.coryhansen.com
"I'm sorry. It's time for you to go." spoke the Gord.

[Andrew]

Post by r***@gmail.com
I really don't see why MS would bother porting Halo 2 to PC...except
for one reason. XBOX Live.

No chance, PC gamers don't need it, and if PC gamers were allowed to
play directly against Xbox users they would beat the crap out of them
(due to control system) and that would instantly piss off their
beloved console market.

[Doug Jacobs]

Post by Andrew

Post by r***@gmail.com
I really don't see why MS would bother porting Halo 2 to PC...except
for one reason. XBOX Live.

No chance, PC gamers don't need it, and if PC gamers were allowed to
play directly against Xbox users they would beat the crap out of them
(due to control system) and that would instantly piss off their
beloved console market.

I don't know. Something like Live for the PC might be interesting if only
for the fact that you would have a single persistant interface for all of
your online play. Also, given that 360's Live also throws in some simple
arcade games, it's sort of a competitor to GameTap, only with a better
socializing interface.

It'll never happen, of course. For one thing, it'd totally destroy the
one and only thing that could possibly make a Xbox superior to a PC.

[Walter Mitty]

"Doug" risked the wrath of Usenet weenies mastering
mommies computer when he ventured forth on 2006-02-11, commmitted

Post by Doug Jacobs

Post by Andrew

Post by r***@gmail.com
I really don't see why MS would bother porting Halo 2 to PC...except
for one reason. XBOX Live.

No chance, PC gamers don't need it, and if PC gamers were allowed to
play directly against Xbox users they would beat the crap out of them
(due to control system) and that would instantly piss off their
beloved console market.

I don't know. Something like Live for the PC might be interesting if only
for the fact that you would have a single persistant interface for all of
your online play. Also, given that 360's Live also throws in some simple
arcade games, it's sort of a competitor to GameTap, only with a better
socializing interface.
It'll never happen, of course. For one thing, it'd totally destroy the
one and only thing that could possibly make a Xbox superior to a PC.

There is only one thing that is NOT superior in a 360 to a PC for
gaming : lack of mouse & kbd control.

Lets see:

1) TV out working
2) HDTV Ready
3) Great sound
4) Great gfx
5) Stable
6) No Patches


I love PCs, but in no way is a PC better for "gaming". It is more
"fun" maybe, but not "better" in any quantifiable arena that I can see
: oh maybe the ability to play pirated games.

As for all this "top end gaming rig" : sure, of course the video cards
have more things to slow a game up , but really the XBox360 graphics
are certainly "up there".

[JAB]

Post by Walter Mitty
I love PCs, but in no way is a PC better for "gaming". It is more
"fun" maybe, but not "better" in any quantifiable arena that I can see
: oh maybe the ability to play pirated games.

Well that depends doesn't it. By my defintion the PC is better for
gaming just because of the games you get for the PC vs. Console. I don't
see Korsun Pocket appearing anytime soon on XBox 360 :-)

[Walter Mitty]

"JAB" risked the wrath of Usenet weenies mastering
mommies computer when he ventured forth on 2006-02-11, commmitted

Post by JAB

Post by Walter Mitty
I love PCs, but in no way is a PC better for "gaming". It is more
"fun" maybe, but not "better" in any quantifiable arena that I can see
: oh maybe the ability to play pirated games.

Well that depends doesn't it. By my defintion the PC is better for
gaming just because of the games you get for the PC vs. Console. I don't
see Korsun Pocket appearing anytime soon on XBox 360 :-)

But thats more of a personal "qame type" though eh? Its not that the
360 cant play them!

It looks kind of Linuxy ... :-;^pclamer couold get it :)

[JAB]

Post by Walter Mitty
"JAB" risked the wrath of Usenet weenies mastering
mommies computer when he ventured forth on 2006-02-11, commmitted

Post by JAB

Post by Walter Mitty
I love PCs, but in no way is a PC better for "gaming". It is more
"fun" maybe, but not "better" in any quantifiable arena that I can see
: oh maybe the ability to play pirated games.

Well that depends doesn't it. By my defintion the PC is better for
gaming just because of the games you get for the PC vs. Console. I don't
see Korsun Pocket appearing anytime soon on XBox 360 :-)

But thats more of a personal "qame type" though eh? Its not that the
360 cant play them!
It looks kind of Linuxy ... :-;^pclamer couold get it :)

No reason it couldn't play them I just can't imagine the meeting where
some exec. stood up and said "I think we need to produce more hex-based
wargames for the XBox 360, what does everyone else think?."

The technical specs look great but in the end it's the games that count.
Have they got Mame on the XBox 360 yet?

[Walter Mitty]

"JAB" risked the wrath of Usenet weenies mastering
mommies computer when he ventured forth on 2006-02-11, commmitted

Post by JAB

Post by Walter Mitty
"JAB" risked the wrath of Usenet weenies mastering
mommies computer when he ventured forth on 2006-02-11, commmitted

Post by JAB

Post by Walter Mitty
I love PCs, but in no way is a PC better for "gaming". It is more
"fun" maybe, but not "better" in any quantifiable arena that I can see
: oh maybe the ability to play pirated games.

Well that depends doesn't it. By my defintion the PC is better for
gaming just because of the games you get for the PC vs. Console. I don't
see Korsun Pocket appearing anytime soon on XBox 360 :-)

But thats more of a personal "qame type" though eh? Its not that the
360 cant play them!
It looks kind of Linuxy ... :-;^pclamer couold get it :)

No reason it couldn't play them I just can't imagine the meeting where
some exec. stood up and said "I think we need to produce more hex-based
wargames for the XBox 360, what does everyone else think?."
The technical specs look great but in the end it's the games that count.
Have they got Mame on the XBox 360 yet?

Have you seen http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/strategy/risk/ ?

I was shocked.

[JAB]

Post by Walter Mitty
"JAB" risked the wrath of Usenet weenies mastering
mommies computer when he ventured forth on 2006-02-11, commmitted

Post by JAB

Post by Walter Mitty
"JAB" risked the wrath of Usenet weenies mastering
mommies computer when he ventured forth on 2006-02-11, commmitted

Post by JAB

Post by Walter Mitty
I love PCs, but in no way is a PC better for "gaming". It is more
"fun" maybe, but not "better" in any quantifiable arena that I can see
: oh maybe the ability to play pirated games.

Well that depends doesn't it. By my defintion the PC is better for
gaming just because of the games you get for the PC vs. Console. I don't
see Korsun Pocket appearing anytime soon on XBox 360 :-)

But thats more of a personal "qame type" though eh? Its not that the
360 cant play them!
It looks kind of Linuxy ... :-;^pclamer couold get it :)

No reason it couldn't play them I just can't imagine the meeting where
some exec. stood up and said "I think we need to produce more hex-based
wargames for the XBox 360, what does everyone else think?."
The technical specs look great but in the end it's the games that count.
Have they got Mame on the XBox 360 yet?

Have you seen http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/strategy/risk/ ?
I was shocked.

Bloody hell ... how many units did it sell, did it get into double figures?

[Walter Mitty]

"JAB" risked the wrath of Usenet weenies mastering
mommies computer when he ventured forth on 2006-02-11, commmitted

Post by JAB
Bloody hell ... how many units did it sell, did it get into double figures?

Youd be amazed : its like the Deer Hunter thing.

Cult following : there really are people who like to play board games
on the TV - no dice to lose I suppose.

There was a follup I believe : Risk 2 - improved graphics. LOL.

[Doug Jacobs]

Post by JAB
Well that depends doesn't it. By my defintion the PC is better for
gaming just because of the games you get for the PC vs. Console. I don't
see Korsun Pocket appearing anytime soon on XBox 360 :-)

That is the correct answer. So long as there are exclusive games worth
playing, the platform is worth owning.

[Mike Young]

Post by Walter Mitty
There is only one thing that is NOT superior in a 360 to a PC for
gaming : lack of mouse & kbd control.

Yes. Isn't that enough?

Post by Walter Mitty
1) TV out working
2) HDTV Ready
3) Great sound
4) Great gfx
5) Stable
6) No Patches

The PC likewise has great sound and graphics. Or can have great sound and
graphics. There wouldn't be any point discussing it otherwise. It comes down
to the mouse versus the right thumbstick, and the mouse wins easily. It's
enough of a barrier that I play Halo on the PC rather than H2 on the
console.

I don't see much point to the consoles. The control system is good for what
it is, but still doesn't compare to specialized controllers on the PC. How
surprising is that? The wheel and flight controllers alone, together, cost
more than the 360.

[James]

Post by Mike Young

Post by Walter Mitty
There is only one thing that is NOT superior in a 360 to a PC for
gaming : lack of mouse & kbd control.

Yes. Isn't that enough?

Post by Walter Mitty
1) TV out working
2) HDTV Ready
3) Great sound
4) Great gfx
5) Stable
6) No Patches

The PC likewise has great sound and graphics. Or can have great sound and
graphics. There wouldn't be any point discussing it otherwise. It comes
down to the mouse versus the right thumbstick, and the mouse wins easily.
It's enough of a barrier that I play Halo on the PC rather than H2 on the
console.
I don't see much point to the consoles. The control system is good for
what it is, but still doesn't compare to specialized controllers on the
PC. How surprising is that? The wheel and flight controllers alone,
together, cost more than the 360.

Probably where this would help then...

http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=82&products_id=5438

[Mike Young]

Post by James

It comes down to the mouse versus the right thumbstick, and the mouse
wins easily. It's enough of a barrier that I play Halo on the PC rather
than H2 on the console.

Probably where this would help then...
http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=82&products_id=5438

I would buy it in a heartbeat if it supports a mousewheel and one additional
button. The trouble then would be rearranging the family room to support the
mice.

[Mike Young]

Post by James

Post by Mike Young
down to the mouse versus the right thumbstick, and the mouse wins easily.

Probably where this would help then...
http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=82&products_id=5438

Thinking some more on this... Does the XBox work with any HID compliant
device? Can it be as simple as slapping an XBox breakaway pigtail on a USB
keyboard+mouse cable?

[Doug Jacobs]

Post by Walter Mitty
There is only one thing that is NOT superior in a 360 to a PC for
gaming : lack of mouse & kbd control.

I believe Microsoft will allow you to use a keyboard/mouse on the 360? It
may be on a game-by-game basis, similar to how the PS2 handles it, but I
thought they were going to allow it...

Post by Walter Mitty
1) TV out working
2) HDTV Ready

The 360 is certainly better with regards to "plug & play" in this aspect.

Post by Walter Mitty
3) Great sound
4) Great gfx

You can still hook up your PC to your stereo/receiver just like the 360,
or use a specialized speaker set.

As for graphics, PCs still have the edge with higher resolutions. HDTV is
a big step forward, but still not what most PC gamers run at.

Post by Walter Mitty
5) Stable
6) No Patches

"Stable" seems to be luck of the draw. The 360 definitely has some fan
and heat issues. If your environment is just a bit too hot, the 360 will
have problems and may refuse to even power on.

"No patches" is also false. I've read an article that there is a patch
planned for DOA4 which will be released via Live, similar to how the 360's
Xbox1 emulator is being updated. If this becomes the norm with the 360,
it'll basically mean there's no point in purchasing a game until the first
patch has been released with customer feedback about what the patch
actually does. Does anyone in the PC world even bother buying a new game
before the first patch is released anymore? I remember you used to be
able to buy a game from the store and expect it to work within 90% right
out of the box. Nowadays, it seems like an utter crapshoot.

[Walter Mitty]

"Doug" risked the wrath of Usenet weenies mastering
mommies computer when he ventured forth on 2006-02-14, commmitted

Post by Doug Jacobs

Post by Walter Mitty
There is only one thing that is NOT superior in a 360 to a PC for
gaming : lack of mouse & kbd control.

I believe Microsoft will allow you to use a keyboard/mouse on the 360? It
may be on a game-by-game basis, similar to how the PS2 handles it, but I
thought they were going to allow it...

Post by Walter Mitty
1) TV out working
2) HDTV Ready

The 360 is certainly better with regards to "plug & play" in this aspect.

Post by Walter Mitty
3) Great sound
4) Great gfx

You can still hook up your PC to your stereo/receiver just like the 360,
or use a specialized speaker set.

I wasnt suggesting the xbox is "better" : its just about the same.

Post by Doug Jacobs
As for graphics, PCs still have the edge with higher resolutions. HDTV is
a big step forward, but still not what most PC gamers run at.

True : but to what end? Personally I still think PS2 games on the TV
look great.

Post by Doug Jacobs

Post by Walter Mitty
5) Stable
6) No Patches

"Stable" seems to be luck of the draw. The 360 definitely has some fan
and heat issues. If your environment is just a bit too hot, the 360 will
have problems and may refuse to even power on.

Humbug. There have been some issues as one woudl expect in a worldwide
release of millions of these things.

Its more stable than most PCs for sure.

Post by Doug Jacobs
"No patches" is also false. I've read an article that there is a patch
planned for DOA4 which will be released via Live, similar to how the 360's

"Less patches".

Post by Doug Jacobs
Xbox1 emulator is being updated. If this becomes the norm with the 360,
it'll basically mean there's no point in purchasing a game until the first
patch has been released with customer feedback about what the patch
actually does. Does anyone in the PC world even bother buying a new game
before the first patch is released anymore? I remember you used to be
able to buy a game from the store and expect it to work within 90% right
out of the box. Nowadays, it seems like an utter crapshoot.

I cant remember the PC game that wouldnt work out of the box : but
maybe because I tend to be careful and probably check its "acceptable"
to the masses. That and my PC is relatively stable and well maintained.